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dagas_isaAs a general note, I suppose what I said in my last rant was a bit on the stupid side, according to many people. I want to thank everyone who gave constructive responses, even if I'm mule-headed enough to think I had a point.
Disclaimer: This is not a discussion. If the FFX/X-2 fandom finds this interesting, I welcome constructive opinions and even disagreement, but there's never going to be any sort of agreed upon conclusion. This is all just long, unplanned rants that cover general fanfic and then go into more specific parts of the FFX world. And in the end, it's all for my own use. kthx.
Point the first: People should write and read what they want to read, particuarly in fanfic. If someone isn't writing what interests you in favor of a theme you think is irrelevant or not worth discussing in terms of the world, write it. Especially if you have knowledge in that particular area. Same with the people who only want to read fun fanfic and forego bringing in themes all together. Someone who writes exclusively for the entertainment of other people, and isn't getting paid for it is a fool.
If you have an interesting idea, or something in the world interests you so much, go and write it, especially if you know the issues behind it.
Point the second:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
ff_press labelled my last post a discussion. It wasn't, so much as it was me going through and muddling out issues and making resolves. While I'm glad for the people who responded, and their points, and the opportunity to flesh out a lot of things in my conception of the Spiran world (though they more than likely didn't), it wasn't a discussion or a lecture. I posted it to a public entry to my personal journal, so while people could and did read it, it wasn't specifically geared towards anyone.
Point the third: Fandom is essentially made to extend and expand upon canon. While maintaining the integrity to canon or at least explaining why it changed. Speculation is allowed, at it doesn't even have to match up with real world examples, though yes, it does help to put the fanfic world into focus to bring in real world history or culture. But in the end, Spira and other non-Earth fic worlds are not Earth. Just because something is one way in our world does not make it so in their world.
Point the fourth: What is said in canon doesn't neccesarily have to be true. Yes, it mostly does need to be true, but details about how the world works can be wrong. In Spira, the idea that the angry unsent souls of the dead become fiends prevails in FFX, but factually this doesn't have to be true, because there's so many questions that need answering.
Fiends release pyreflies when they die, right? So do people. So why don't people send fiends to keep them from coming back? One person could answer because it's too much of a hassle. Other people might think of another explanation for why both people and fiends release pyreflies, or why unsent human pyreflies are dangerous, but fiend ones aren't. At that's just one question on one issue. People can believe something completely different from what's fact, and exploring that gap can be fun.
Point the fifth: Just because something isn't shown, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are no playable left-handed characters in Spira, and probably no humans who fight with their weapons in their left hand encountered as enemies. While it could be that the brain development, and genes that influence left-handedness don't exist in Spira, it could simply be that lefties do exist but aren't shown. Same thing with homosexuality. Just because there are no canon relationships between two men or two women (although boy, SE sure liked to pile on the girl/girl fanservice in other ways), doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in Spira. It's simply not as big a deal as the few interracial marriages which exist canoncially.
Point the sixth: There doesn't need to be a heavy load of rationalization for any couple. It's nice, and should be done to understand the couples, but it doesn't need to be done. I like Rikku and Paine together for several reasons. Part of it is yes, I do have lesbian tendencies and like seeing that sort of love displayed. But I don't simply throw together two girls because they look pretty.
Rikku strikes me as having a non-platonic love for Yuna, even though she doesn't express it, and probably for good reason. It's a complicated thing she feels, an attraction, a love for her cousin, but at the same time valuing the friendship there enough to stay quiet about it. It's a bit darker than what her cheerful exterior lets on, but it's a possible interpretation on completely canon events. Yes, she is or was attracted to Gippal, but I'm not excluding an attraction to men, just adding an attraction to women, namely two very specific women.
Paine...nothing is indicated that she has a canon lover. In fact, it's almost certain she doesn't. She's reserved, and self-contained, and yet she has enough respect for Yuna and Rikku to eventually open herself up to them. I see her as someone who takes a while to trust people, but who still counts on people once she trusts them. I also see her desiring romance like other people do, but not necessarily willing to put herself on the line for it.
So, Rikku has someone who can understand her affection for her cousin in Paine and Paine has someone she trusts to turn into. They're already friends, so there is some form of personality complmentation there. It's not a paragon of perfect selfless love, but rather two people who need something finding in the others. It can end for as many reasons as it could continue, but it's not arbitrary.
On a pairings sidenote: I was never a fan of Tidus/Yuna until I realized for myself a probable reason for Yuna's attraction to him. He represents the otherworld, the fresh viewpoint. Of everything in Spira, Tidus represents and actual hope. Tidus is also a connection to Jecht, which is a connection to a father she never really got to know. Not to be totally hypocritical, Tidus is probably attracted to Yuna not just because she's a pretty girl, but also because she's the first person to really believe and take interest in his world. So in a sense, she becomes the first person in Spira he can be totally himself around. When (if) they get back together in FFX-2, they'll have to deal with knowing each other as people. Is there something deeper than their initial that could keep them together, or would it just fall apart. Either way it takes more thought and work to keep the pair together than simply "the canon said so".
Actually, I wasn't a Yuna fan until I started writing Kimahri. It's his perspective on Yuna that changed my mind about her. He loves her, so to write him truly, I have to come up with a good reason for him to love her. So now while she's still not my favorite FFX fan, I see her as being more than just the designated love interest for an annoying main character (nope, still not a Tidus fan).
Point the last: Just because it has a pairing doesn't mean it's exclusively romance or porn. It can be but it doesn't have to be. And this goes for any type of pairing. I'm not going to be arrested if I write a Rikku/Paine fic that has a plot. People might not read it, necessarily, but then go and see point the first for my opinion on that.
Not points, but just random themes I'd like to explore, or see explored:
Spiran Archeology: Yes the monkeys closed out Zanarkand as a tourist trap. But there's still a lot to be gleaned from actually excavating and studying the ruins. Not to mention all the pyreflies there, which show very important historical moments. It's a question in earth archeology, but it could be applied to Spira. How much excavation, if any, would be worthwhile? What happens if people abuse the cites of former cities, much like early collecters would just take artifacts from any old site as part of their collections? What information would be found, and how would it be made public, if it was made public.
The Guado fleeing Guadosalam: Why? Did they fear a retaliation of Ronso if they stayed in their home city? Did one already come and clear them out? Did humans (namely Leblanc or Tobli) take advantage of the Guado's leaderless state to get a ready-made, centrally-located base for their business. What reduced the Guado so drastically that Garik and his Ronso supporters could wipe them out? Excuse me if I wonder how the Ronso can go from being nearly extinct in FFX to having enough warriors to commit their own genocide not even two years later, as they'd have to accomplish the majority of their counterattack before Kimahri became elder. And why Macalania? Strategic reasons? Or simply because the Guado sense of aesthetics appreciates the idea of their race dying in a dying world?
Magic: Now that technology is becoming accepted and prevalent again and the aeons are gone, what will happen? Is magic in Spira force that exists opposed to technology? Was it connected to the Aeons, and like Macalania woods, will be gone forever from Spira? If that happens will someone, or a group of people do what Yu Yevon did, and use the last of what's left to create a protected memorial of a more magical Spira, and bring back a new version of Sin. Or is magic simply the ingrained potential of the Spiran people, which can be brought out through education and training? In which case, how will magic and machines work together to change Spira?
Technology: Why, oh why, does most of the Al Bhed research focus on weaponry and transportation? Yeah, I know it makes sense in a combat oriented game, but not in an actual living world? What about medical technology? Things that make living a little easier? When salvagable parts run out, where and how will the Al Bhed and others get the raw material to make machines?
Population Boom: The population in Spira has to have grown drastically since the Calm. All the people who would have put off marrying, or who chose to "keep Sin away from their girl" can now settle down and make families. People aren't getting killed in their fertile years at as high rates as they were when Sin was around, so families can have more children. More children survive to reproductive age. So the question becomes: Where do all these people go, and how do you feed them all? If there is no population boom, what is limiting the carrying capacity of that population?
Spiran Environment: Sort of an amalgation of the last few points. Things are changng drastically among the intelligent races of Spira, so how exactly is this going to affect their world, and make it better or worse? Will there start being problems with pollution? Biodiversity? How are people going to deal with it?
Phew. There ya go. Dug out of the collective wastebin.
Disclaimer: This is not a discussion. If the FFX/X-2 fandom finds this interesting, I welcome constructive opinions and even disagreement, but there's never going to be any sort of agreed upon conclusion. This is all just long, unplanned rants that cover general fanfic and then go into more specific parts of the FFX world. And in the end, it's all for my own use. kthx.
Point the first: People should write and read what they want to read, particuarly in fanfic. If someone isn't writing what interests you in favor of a theme you think is irrelevant or not worth discussing in terms of the world, write it. Especially if you have knowledge in that particular area. Same with the people who only want to read fun fanfic and forego bringing in themes all together. Someone who writes exclusively for the entertainment of other people, and isn't getting paid for it is a fool.
If you have an interesting idea, or something in the world interests you so much, go and write it, especially if you know the issues behind it.
Point the second:
ff_press labelled my last post a discussion. It wasn't, so much as it was me going through and muddling out issues and making resolves. While I'm glad for the people who responded, and their points, and the opportunity to flesh out a lot of things in my conception of the Spiran world (though they more than likely didn't), it wasn't a discussion or a lecture. I posted it to a public entry to my personal journal, so while people could and did read it, it wasn't specifically geared towards anyone.Point the third: Fandom is essentially made to extend and expand upon canon. While maintaining the integrity to canon or at least explaining why it changed. Speculation is allowed, at it doesn't even have to match up with real world examples, though yes, it does help to put the fanfic world into focus to bring in real world history or culture. But in the end, Spira and other non-Earth fic worlds are not Earth. Just because something is one way in our world does not make it so in their world.
Point the fourth: What is said in canon doesn't neccesarily have to be true. Yes, it mostly does need to be true, but details about how the world works can be wrong. In Spira, the idea that the angry unsent souls of the dead become fiends prevails in FFX, but factually this doesn't have to be true, because there's so many questions that need answering.
Fiends release pyreflies when they die, right? So do people. So why don't people send fiends to keep them from coming back? One person could answer because it's too much of a hassle. Other people might think of another explanation for why both people and fiends release pyreflies, or why unsent human pyreflies are dangerous, but fiend ones aren't. At that's just one question on one issue. People can believe something completely different from what's fact, and exploring that gap can be fun.
Point the fifth: Just because something isn't shown, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are no playable left-handed characters in Spira, and probably no humans who fight with their weapons in their left hand encountered as enemies. While it could be that the brain development, and genes that influence left-handedness don't exist in Spira, it could simply be that lefties do exist but aren't shown. Same thing with homosexuality. Just because there are no canon relationships between two men or two women (although boy, SE sure liked to pile on the girl/girl fanservice in other ways), doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in Spira. It's simply not as big a deal as the few interracial marriages which exist canoncially.
Point the sixth: There doesn't need to be a heavy load of rationalization for any couple. It's nice, and should be done to understand the couples, but it doesn't need to be done. I like Rikku and Paine together for several reasons. Part of it is yes, I do have lesbian tendencies and like seeing that sort of love displayed. But I don't simply throw together two girls because they look pretty.
Rikku strikes me as having a non-platonic love for Yuna, even though she doesn't express it, and probably for good reason. It's a complicated thing she feels, an attraction, a love for her cousin, but at the same time valuing the friendship there enough to stay quiet about it. It's a bit darker than what her cheerful exterior lets on, but it's a possible interpretation on completely canon events. Yes, she is or was attracted to Gippal, but I'm not excluding an attraction to men, just adding an attraction to women, namely two very specific women.
Paine...nothing is indicated that she has a canon lover. In fact, it's almost certain she doesn't. She's reserved, and self-contained, and yet she has enough respect for Yuna and Rikku to eventually open herself up to them. I see her as someone who takes a while to trust people, but who still counts on people once she trusts them. I also see her desiring romance like other people do, but not necessarily willing to put herself on the line for it.
So, Rikku has someone who can understand her affection for her cousin in Paine and Paine has someone she trusts to turn into. They're already friends, so there is some form of personality complmentation there. It's not a paragon of perfect selfless love, but rather two people who need something finding in the others. It can end for as many reasons as it could continue, but it's not arbitrary.
On a pairings sidenote: I was never a fan of Tidus/Yuna until I realized for myself a probable reason for Yuna's attraction to him. He represents the otherworld, the fresh viewpoint. Of everything in Spira, Tidus represents and actual hope. Tidus is also a connection to Jecht, which is a connection to a father she never really got to know. Not to be totally hypocritical, Tidus is probably attracted to Yuna not just because she's a pretty girl, but also because she's the first person to really believe and take interest in his world. So in a sense, she becomes the first person in Spira he can be totally himself around. When (if) they get back together in FFX-2, they'll have to deal with knowing each other as people. Is there something deeper than their initial that could keep them together, or would it just fall apart. Either way it takes more thought and work to keep the pair together than simply "the canon said so".
Actually, I wasn't a Yuna fan until I started writing Kimahri. It's his perspective on Yuna that changed my mind about her. He loves her, so to write him truly, I have to come up with a good reason for him to love her. So now while she's still not my favorite FFX fan, I see her as being more than just the designated love interest for an annoying main character (nope, still not a Tidus fan).
Point the last: Just because it has a pairing doesn't mean it's exclusively romance or porn. It can be but it doesn't have to be. And this goes for any type of pairing. I'm not going to be arrested if I write a Rikku/Paine fic that has a plot. People might not read it, necessarily, but then go and see point the first for my opinion on that.
Not points, but just random themes I'd like to explore, or see explored:
Spiran Archeology: Yes the monkeys closed out Zanarkand as a tourist trap. But there's still a lot to be gleaned from actually excavating and studying the ruins. Not to mention all the pyreflies there, which show very important historical moments. It's a question in earth archeology, but it could be applied to Spira. How much excavation, if any, would be worthwhile? What happens if people abuse the cites of former cities, much like early collecters would just take artifacts from any old site as part of their collections? What information would be found, and how would it be made public, if it was made public.
The Guado fleeing Guadosalam: Why? Did they fear a retaliation of Ronso if they stayed in their home city? Did one already come and clear them out? Did humans (namely Leblanc or Tobli) take advantage of the Guado's leaderless state to get a ready-made, centrally-located base for their business. What reduced the Guado so drastically that Garik and his Ronso supporters could wipe them out? Excuse me if I wonder how the Ronso can go from being nearly extinct in FFX to having enough warriors to commit their own genocide not even two years later, as they'd have to accomplish the majority of their counterattack before Kimahri became elder. And why Macalania? Strategic reasons? Or simply because the Guado sense of aesthetics appreciates the idea of their race dying in a dying world?
Magic: Now that technology is becoming accepted and prevalent again and the aeons are gone, what will happen? Is magic in Spira force that exists opposed to technology? Was it connected to the Aeons, and like Macalania woods, will be gone forever from Spira? If that happens will someone, or a group of people do what Yu Yevon did, and use the last of what's left to create a protected memorial of a more magical Spira, and bring back a new version of Sin. Or is magic simply the ingrained potential of the Spiran people, which can be brought out through education and training? In which case, how will magic and machines work together to change Spira?
Technology: Why, oh why, does most of the Al Bhed research focus on weaponry and transportation? Yeah, I know it makes sense in a combat oriented game, but not in an actual living world? What about medical technology? Things that make living a little easier? When salvagable parts run out, where and how will the Al Bhed and others get the raw material to make machines?
Population Boom: The population in Spira has to have grown drastically since the Calm. All the people who would have put off marrying, or who chose to "keep Sin away from their girl" can now settle down and make families. People aren't getting killed in their fertile years at as high rates as they were when Sin was around, so families can have more children. More children survive to reproductive age. So the question becomes: Where do all these people go, and how do you feed them all? If there is no population boom, what is limiting the carrying capacity of that population?
Spiran Environment: Sort of an amalgation of the last few points. Things are changng drastically among the intelligent races of Spira, so how exactly is this going to affect their world, and make it better or worse? Will there start being problems with pollution? Biodiversity? How are people going to deal with it?
Phew. There ya go. Dug out of the collective wastebin.
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no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 06:17 pm (UTC)My memory may be failing me, but at the beginning of FFX-2, the girls find a sphere. Without spoiling anything for you, it's from Zanarkand 1000 years ago (or maybe Bevelle then, if that's the case. But I think they say it's actually Zanarkand), and I remember it looking just like Tidus' Zanarkand. So maybe they werent as far behind technologically as Maechen might lead us to believe, or maybe his memory's going (lol, he IS old). Perhaps Bevelle was just way ahead of everyone else, with Zanarkand focusing their efforts on goofing off and playing blitzball instead of actual war efforts. What were the summoners for anyway? Just war? I still dont get that one.
Anyway, havent had much time to think this one over, but that's something that stuck out to me.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 06:40 pm (UTC)Aside from that, if Zanarkand was as advanced as it seems in Tidus' "time" then they should really go see what's up over there >.>
In that case, though, two things:
1) I shudder to think what kind of machina Bevelle had if they were so far ahead of Zanarkand. My point about what the hell they did with their super-advanced machina still stands then. And might even be more relevant.
2) Tidus' Zanarkand being the way it is would make sooooo much more sense cause why the hell would Yevon try to preserve its memory and make if different? So if that's the case then cool, canon makes more sense. Bevelle would still be scary, though.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 11:02 pm (UTC)Now that I think of it, did Bevelle actually USE Vegnagun against Zanarkand? Was that what totally blew it to smithereens? I mean, if Lenne died trying to stop it from working... That would explain the super friggin scary machina no one else had seen the likes of in all of Spira. O_O
Tidus' Zanarkand certainly fits the "O NOES ZANARKAND WAS ALL MACHINA 'SWHY SIN CAME TO DESTROY IT" teachings of Yevon.
Who... who had Sin on their side? Yunalesca created it, ne? Her hubby, Zaon, was her daddy's first Sin, right? So... she made a deal with Bevelle for them to worship Yevon and she'd call it off?
Yet at the beginning of FFX, it wasnt machina we see attacking Zanarkand, it was Sin itself. Well, Jecht!Sin, not Zaon!Sin, but Sin nonetheless. IF Dream!Zanarkand is Real!Zanarkand... it makes sense that part of Yunalesca's deal with Bevelle was that she'd turn Sin on her own city to destroy it (the whore).
Hmm...
no subject
Date: 2006-07-18 12:46 am (UTC)And Tidus's Zanarkand is pretty much the remembered fragments of the real Zanarkand, if only idealized, so they can all play their blitz in peace.
As for the summons, I'm guessing they could be used to protect the city for defensive purposes, or they could serve as 'guardians' to their summoners, who might have to be a certain class to have the summoning ability.