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dagas_isaAs a general note, I suppose what I said in my last rant was a bit on the stupid side, according to many people. I want to thank everyone who gave constructive responses, even if I'm mule-headed enough to think I had a point.
Disclaimer: This is not a discussion. If the FFX/X-2 fandom finds this interesting, I welcome constructive opinions and even disagreement, but there's never going to be any sort of agreed upon conclusion. This is all just long, unplanned rants that cover general fanfic and then go into more specific parts of the FFX world. And in the end, it's all for my own use. kthx.
Point the first: People should write and read what they want to read, particuarly in fanfic. If someone isn't writing what interests you in favor of a theme you think is irrelevant or not worth discussing in terms of the world, write it. Especially if you have knowledge in that particular area. Same with the people who only want to read fun fanfic and forego bringing in themes all together. Someone who writes exclusively for the entertainment of other people, and isn't getting paid for it is a fool.
If you have an interesting idea, or something in the world interests you so much, go and write it, especially if you know the issues behind it.
Point the second:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
ff_press labelled my last post a discussion. It wasn't, so much as it was me going through and muddling out issues and making resolves. While I'm glad for the people who responded, and their points, and the opportunity to flesh out a lot of things in my conception of the Spiran world (though they more than likely didn't), it wasn't a discussion or a lecture. I posted it to a public entry to my personal journal, so while people could and did read it, it wasn't specifically geared towards anyone.
Point the third: Fandom is essentially made to extend and expand upon canon. While maintaining the integrity to canon or at least explaining why it changed. Speculation is allowed, at it doesn't even have to match up with real world examples, though yes, it does help to put the fanfic world into focus to bring in real world history or culture. But in the end, Spira and other non-Earth fic worlds are not Earth. Just because something is one way in our world does not make it so in their world.
Point the fourth: What is said in canon doesn't neccesarily have to be true. Yes, it mostly does need to be true, but details about how the world works can be wrong. In Spira, the idea that the angry unsent souls of the dead become fiends prevails in FFX, but factually this doesn't have to be true, because there's so many questions that need answering.
Fiends release pyreflies when they die, right? So do people. So why don't people send fiends to keep them from coming back? One person could answer because it's too much of a hassle. Other people might think of another explanation for why both people and fiends release pyreflies, or why unsent human pyreflies are dangerous, but fiend ones aren't. At that's just one question on one issue. People can believe something completely different from what's fact, and exploring that gap can be fun.
Point the fifth: Just because something isn't shown, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are no playable left-handed characters in Spira, and probably no humans who fight with their weapons in their left hand encountered as enemies. While it could be that the brain development, and genes that influence left-handedness don't exist in Spira, it could simply be that lefties do exist but aren't shown. Same thing with homosexuality. Just because there are no canon relationships between two men or two women (although boy, SE sure liked to pile on the girl/girl fanservice in other ways), doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in Spira. It's simply not as big a deal as the few interracial marriages which exist canoncially.
Point the sixth: There doesn't need to be a heavy load of rationalization for any couple. It's nice, and should be done to understand the couples, but it doesn't need to be done. I like Rikku and Paine together for several reasons. Part of it is yes, I do have lesbian tendencies and like seeing that sort of love displayed. But I don't simply throw together two girls because they look pretty.
Rikku strikes me as having a non-platonic love for Yuna, even though she doesn't express it, and probably for good reason. It's a complicated thing she feels, an attraction, a love for her cousin, but at the same time valuing the friendship there enough to stay quiet about it. It's a bit darker than what her cheerful exterior lets on, but it's a possible interpretation on completely canon events. Yes, she is or was attracted to Gippal, but I'm not excluding an attraction to men, just adding an attraction to women, namely two very specific women.
Paine...nothing is indicated that she has a canon lover. In fact, it's almost certain she doesn't. She's reserved, and self-contained, and yet she has enough respect for Yuna and Rikku to eventually open herself up to them. I see her as someone who takes a while to trust people, but who still counts on people once she trusts them. I also see her desiring romance like other people do, but not necessarily willing to put herself on the line for it.
So, Rikku has someone who can understand her affection for her cousin in Paine and Paine has someone she trusts to turn into. They're already friends, so there is some form of personality complmentation there. It's not a paragon of perfect selfless love, but rather two people who need something finding in the others. It can end for as many reasons as it could continue, but it's not arbitrary.
On a pairings sidenote: I was never a fan of Tidus/Yuna until I realized for myself a probable reason for Yuna's attraction to him. He represents the otherworld, the fresh viewpoint. Of everything in Spira, Tidus represents and actual hope. Tidus is also a connection to Jecht, which is a connection to a father she never really got to know. Not to be totally hypocritical, Tidus is probably attracted to Yuna not just because she's a pretty girl, but also because she's the first person to really believe and take interest in his world. So in a sense, she becomes the first person in Spira he can be totally himself around. When (if) they get back together in FFX-2, they'll have to deal with knowing each other as people. Is there something deeper than their initial that could keep them together, or would it just fall apart. Either way it takes more thought and work to keep the pair together than simply "the canon said so".
Actually, I wasn't a Yuna fan until I started writing Kimahri. It's his perspective on Yuna that changed my mind about her. He loves her, so to write him truly, I have to come up with a good reason for him to love her. So now while she's still not my favorite FFX fan, I see her as being more than just the designated love interest for an annoying main character (nope, still not a Tidus fan).
Point the last: Just because it has a pairing doesn't mean it's exclusively romance or porn. It can be but it doesn't have to be. And this goes for any type of pairing. I'm not going to be arrested if I write a Rikku/Paine fic that has a plot. People might not read it, necessarily, but then go and see point the first for my opinion on that.
Not points, but just random themes I'd like to explore, or see explored:
Spiran Archeology: Yes the monkeys closed out Zanarkand as a tourist trap. But there's still a lot to be gleaned from actually excavating and studying the ruins. Not to mention all the pyreflies there, which show very important historical moments. It's a question in earth archeology, but it could be applied to Spira. How much excavation, if any, would be worthwhile? What happens if people abuse the cites of former cities, much like early collecters would just take artifacts from any old site as part of their collections? What information would be found, and how would it be made public, if it was made public.
The Guado fleeing Guadosalam: Why? Did they fear a retaliation of Ronso if they stayed in their home city? Did one already come and clear them out? Did humans (namely Leblanc or Tobli) take advantage of the Guado's leaderless state to get a ready-made, centrally-located base for their business. What reduced the Guado so drastically that Garik and his Ronso supporters could wipe them out? Excuse me if I wonder how the Ronso can go from being nearly extinct in FFX to having enough warriors to commit their own genocide not even two years later, as they'd have to accomplish the majority of their counterattack before Kimahri became elder. And why Macalania? Strategic reasons? Or simply because the Guado sense of aesthetics appreciates the idea of their race dying in a dying world?
Magic: Now that technology is becoming accepted and prevalent again and the aeons are gone, what will happen? Is magic in Spira force that exists opposed to technology? Was it connected to the Aeons, and like Macalania woods, will be gone forever from Spira? If that happens will someone, or a group of people do what Yu Yevon did, and use the last of what's left to create a protected memorial of a more magical Spira, and bring back a new version of Sin. Or is magic simply the ingrained potential of the Spiran people, which can be brought out through education and training? In which case, how will magic and machines work together to change Spira?
Technology: Why, oh why, does most of the Al Bhed research focus on weaponry and transportation? Yeah, I know it makes sense in a combat oriented game, but not in an actual living world? What about medical technology? Things that make living a little easier? When salvagable parts run out, where and how will the Al Bhed and others get the raw material to make machines?
Population Boom: The population in Spira has to have grown drastically since the Calm. All the people who would have put off marrying, or who chose to "keep Sin away from their girl" can now settle down and make families. People aren't getting killed in their fertile years at as high rates as they were when Sin was around, so families can have more children. More children survive to reproductive age. So the question becomes: Where do all these people go, and how do you feed them all? If there is no population boom, what is limiting the carrying capacity of that population?
Spiran Environment: Sort of an amalgation of the last few points. Things are changng drastically among the intelligent races of Spira, so how exactly is this going to affect their world, and make it better or worse? Will there start being problems with pollution? Biodiversity? How are people going to deal with it?
Phew. There ya go. Dug out of the collective wastebin.
Disclaimer: This is not a discussion. If the FFX/X-2 fandom finds this interesting, I welcome constructive opinions and even disagreement, but there's never going to be any sort of agreed upon conclusion. This is all just long, unplanned rants that cover general fanfic and then go into more specific parts of the FFX world. And in the end, it's all for my own use. kthx.
Point the first: People should write and read what they want to read, particuarly in fanfic. If someone isn't writing what interests you in favor of a theme you think is irrelevant or not worth discussing in terms of the world, write it. Especially if you have knowledge in that particular area. Same with the people who only want to read fun fanfic and forego bringing in themes all together. Someone who writes exclusively for the entertainment of other people, and isn't getting paid for it is a fool.
If you have an interesting idea, or something in the world interests you so much, go and write it, especially if you know the issues behind it.
Point the second:
ff_press labelled my last post a discussion. It wasn't, so much as it was me going through and muddling out issues and making resolves. While I'm glad for the people who responded, and their points, and the opportunity to flesh out a lot of things in my conception of the Spiran world (though they more than likely didn't), it wasn't a discussion or a lecture. I posted it to a public entry to my personal journal, so while people could and did read it, it wasn't specifically geared towards anyone.Point the third: Fandom is essentially made to extend and expand upon canon. While maintaining the integrity to canon or at least explaining why it changed. Speculation is allowed, at it doesn't even have to match up with real world examples, though yes, it does help to put the fanfic world into focus to bring in real world history or culture. But in the end, Spira and other non-Earth fic worlds are not Earth. Just because something is one way in our world does not make it so in their world.
Point the fourth: What is said in canon doesn't neccesarily have to be true. Yes, it mostly does need to be true, but details about how the world works can be wrong. In Spira, the idea that the angry unsent souls of the dead become fiends prevails in FFX, but factually this doesn't have to be true, because there's so many questions that need answering.
Fiends release pyreflies when they die, right? So do people. So why don't people send fiends to keep them from coming back? One person could answer because it's too much of a hassle. Other people might think of another explanation for why both people and fiends release pyreflies, or why unsent human pyreflies are dangerous, but fiend ones aren't. At that's just one question on one issue. People can believe something completely different from what's fact, and exploring that gap can be fun.
Point the fifth: Just because something isn't shown, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are no playable left-handed characters in Spira, and probably no humans who fight with their weapons in their left hand encountered as enemies. While it could be that the brain development, and genes that influence left-handedness don't exist in Spira, it could simply be that lefties do exist but aren't shown. Same thing with homosexuality. Just because there are no canon relationships between two men or two women (although boy, SE sure liked to pile on the girl/girl fanservice in other ways), doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in Spira. It's simply not as big a deal as the few interracial marriages which exist canoncially.
Point the sixth: There doesn't need to be a heavy load of rationalization for any couple. It's nice, and should be done to understand the couples, but it doesn't need to be done. I like Rikku and Paine together for several reasons. Part of it is yes, I do have lesbian tendencies and like seeing that sort of love displayed. But I don't simply throw together two girls because they look pretty.
Rikku strikes me as having a non-platonic love for Yuna, even though she doesn't express it, and probably for good reason. It's a complicated thing she feels, an attraction, a love for her cousin, but at the same time valuing the friendship there enough to stay quiet about it. It's a bit darker than what her cheerful exterior lets on, but it's a possible interpretation on completely canon events. Yes, she is or was attracted to Gippal, but I'm not excluding an attraction to men, just adding an attraction to women, namely two very specific women.
Paine...nothing is indicated that she has a canon lover. In fact, it's almost certain she doesn't. She's reserved, and self-contained, and yet she has enough respect for Yuna and Rikku to eventually open herself up to them. I see her as someone who takes a while to trust people, but who still counts on people once she trusts them. I also see her desiring romance like other people do, but not necessarily willing to put herself on the line for it.
So, Rikku has someone who can understand her affection for her cousin in Paine and Paine has someone she trusts to turn into. They're already friends, so there is some form of personality complmentation there. It's not a paragon of perfect selfless love, but rather two people who need something finding in the others. It can end for as many reasons as it could continue, but it's not arbitrary.
On a pairings sidenote: I was never a fan of Tidus/Yuna until I realized for myself a probable reason for Yuna's attraction to him. He represents the otherworld, the fresh viewpoint. Of everything in Spira, Tidus represents and actual hope. Tidus is also a connection to Jecht, which is a connection to a father she never really got to know. Not to be totally hypocritical, Tidus is probably attracted to Yuna not just because she's a pretty girl, but also because she's the first person to really believe and take interest in his world. So in a sense, she becomes the first person in Spira he can be totally himself around. When (if) they get back together in FFX-2, they'll have to deal with knowing each other as people. Is there something deeper than their initial that could keep them together, or would it just fall apart. Either way it takes more thought and work to keep the pair together than simply "the canon said so".
Actually, I wasn't a Yuna fan until I started writing Kimahri. It's his perspective on Yuna that changed my mind about her. He loves her, so to write him truly, I have to come up with a good reason for him to love her. So now while she's still not my favorite FFX fan, I see her as being more than just the designated love interest for an annoying main character (nope, still not a Tidus fan).
Point the last: Just because it has a pairing doesn't mean it's exclusively romance or porn. It can be but it doesn't have to be. And this goes for any type of pairing. I'm not going to be arrested if I write a Rikku/Paine fic that has a plot. People might not read it, necessarily, but then go and see point the first for my opinion on that.
Not points, but just random themes I'd like to explore, or see explored:
Spiran Archeology: Yes the monkeys closed out Zanarkand as a tourist trap. But there's still a lot to be gleaned from actually excavating and studying the ruins. Not to mention all the pyreflies there, which show very important historical moments. It's a question in earth archeology, but it could be applied to Spira. How much excavation, if any, would be worthwhile? What happens if people abuse the cites of former cities, much like early collecters would just take artifacts from any old site as part of their collections? What information would be found, and how would it be made public, if it was made public.
The Guado fleeing Guadosalam: Why? Did they fear a retaliation of Ronso if they stayed in their home city? Did one already come and clear them out? Did humans (namely Leblanc or Tobli) take advantage of the Guado's leaderless state to get a ready-made, centrally-located base for their business. What reduced the Guado so drastically that Garik and his Ronso supporters could wipe them out? Excuse me if I wonder how the Ronso can go from being nearly extinct in FFX to having enough warriors to commit their own genocide not even two years later, as they'd have to accomplish the majority of their counterattack before Kimahri became elder. And why Macalania? Strategic reasons? Or simply because the Guado sense of aesthetics appreciates the idea of their race dying in a dying world?
Magic: Now that technology is becoming accepted and prevalent again and the aeons are gone, what will happen? Is magic in Spira force that exists opposed to technology? Was it connected to the Aeons, and like Macalania woods, will be gone forever from Spira? If that happens will someone, or a group of people do what Yu Yevon did, and use the last of what's left to create a protected memorial of a more magical Spira, and bring back a new version of Sin. Or is magic simply the ingrained potential of the Spiran people, which can be brought out through education and training? In which case, how will magic and machines work together to change Spira?
Technology: Why, oh why, does most of the Al Bhed research focus on weaponry and transportation? Yeah, I know it makes sense in a combat oriented game, but not in an actual living world? What about medical technology? Things that make living a little easier? When salvagable parts run out, where and how will the Al Bhed and others get the raw material to make machines?
Population Boom: The population in Spira has to have grown drastically since the Calm. All the people who would have put off marrying, or who chose to "keep Sin away from their girl" can now settle down and make families. People aren't getting killed in their fertile years at as high rates as they were when Sin was around, so families can have more children. More children survive to reproductive age. So the question becomes: Where do all these people go, and how do you feed them all? If there is no population boom, what is limiting the carrying capacity of that population?
Spiran Environment: Sort of an amalgation of the last few points. Things are changng drastically among the intelligent races of Spira, so how exactly is this going to affect their world, and make it better or worse? Will there start being problems with pollution? Biodiversity? How are people going to deal with it?
Phew. There ya go. Dug out of the collective wastebin.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
*wince*
Date: 2006-07-16 01:03 pm (UTC)Regardless! Apologies if you felt I listed your post incorrectly.
Re: *wince*
Date: 2006-07-16 06:12 pm (UTC)Anyway, I definitely appreciate what you guys at FF Press do for the fandom, and the links you put there, and I'm sorry if it came off as me blaming you for something that you really don't have any control over.
Re: *wince*
Date: 2006-07-16 06:17 pm (UTC)Re: *wince*
Date: 2006-07-17 03:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 01:21 am (UTC)Fiends release pyreflies when they die, right? So do people. So why don't people send fiends to keep them from coming back?
That is a REALLY good point. I think that topic of debate even leads into the whole pyreflies = lifeforce, and how the FFX world probably takes place about 1000 years before FF7, and what they "know" then, in a world of technology, is different from what they "knew" back in Spira, kinda like how 1000 years ago scientific theories were completely different than they are now.
Yes, she is or was attracted to Gippal, but I'm not excluding an attraction to men, just adding an attraction to women, namely two very specific women.
Rikku's attraction to Gippal is widely accepted as a fact, but the whole area of what kind of relationship they had growing up and what they do or have at any point felt for each other is really up for debate. Which actually works for you, not against you.
That's the biggest thing about FFX canon and fandom that I think really works for a lot of different alt pairings. There are so many ways you can interpret canon events that you can honestly put together good support for so many pairings and write off what actually happened in canon without pretending they never happened.
Not to be totally hypocritical, Tidus is probably attracted to Yuna not just because she's a pretty girl, but also because she's the first person to really believe and take interest in his world.
You also have to keep in mind the fact that once he found out Yuna was pretty much dying, and knew that she was falling in love with him, there's a lot of emotion and pressure that had to be involved with wanting her to be happy and wanting to save and protect her. I think.
And I love the themes you're thinking about too. ♥♥♥ I hope you choose to write more about them.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-18 06:38 am (UTC)As for FFX being connected to FF7, there's definitely some little inside references, but unless Spira is located on the other side of the planet, the geograpy's too different to be the same place. Unless Shinra was into terraforming.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-18 02:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 12:29 pm (UTC)And, uh, I know this isn't a discussion, but you bring up interesting points, and I'm a huge dork for fleshing out canon and filling in canon holes. So I hope you don't mind if I add my two cents here. Who knows, we might both come to interesting conclusions =D
Fiends release pyreflies when they die, right? So do people. So why don't people send fiends to keep them from coming back?
Well, I thought the idea was that unsent souls become fiends because they grow envious of the living. They hate, and envy, and basically go mad with both. They lose their minds and are reduced to primal urges. Once you become a fiend, you're mindless. To be an Unsent you have to have a powerful connection to the world of the living, and this is usually based in something rational or essentially human (well, sentient, taking the other races into account). Love, duty, promises, adherence to very strong ideals that require you to stay "alive." Even very strong hatred, probably, though I suspect you'd go fiend pretty quick on that one. Any and all of these can be corrupted, of course, which is when you go crazy and become a fiend. Once you become a fiend, I think you lose the capacity to cling to this world once someone kills you (again). Primal urges such as fiends would have are probably just not strong enough to make fiend pyreflies bother to stick around.
That's one way to justify it, at least. Your milage may vary, of course.
Spiran Archeology
Forgive me if I'm running my mouth on this when FFX-2 would answer my questions, but what, exactly, is there to be gleaned from excavating Zanarkand? There's a piece of FFX canon that I want to bring up here to explain what I mean:
If I recall correctly, Yunalesca made a deal with Bevelle that they'd stop it with the machina and fall down and worship Yevon and be all into summoning. Okay. But what this essentially means (that's relevant here) is that all Zanarkand had before it got exploded was summoners. Just like the rest of Spira had for the thousand years after. From the perspective of comparative culture, Zanarkand would be interesting to explore, but not terribly more so than comparing how, say, Besaid differs from Luca. There's probably interesting history to be found there, but nothing terribly useful. Me, I'm a history nut, so I'd find that kind of thing fascinating and would totally be there with my shovel. Spirans? Probably not. They're likely more preoccupied with the future right now, with finding ways to deal with all those other problems you brought up, and the history of a city of summoners, now that the aeons are gone, is probably not very useful to them. Sure, it's interesting, but not terribly useful.
Now, Dream Zanarkand would be a whole other story. They had all kinds of machina there, and not just combat or transporation machina. It seemed to reach to every sector of society there, and they likely had all sorts of useful things to make daily living easier. But Dream Zanarkand went poof. Bevelle was the place with the machina. What would be cool to know is what the hell they did with all that technology when Yunalesca told them they had to worship daddy now.
Apparently I talk too much. More in next comment =D
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 12:35 pm (UTC)Magic:
I believe magic is latent in all Spirans -- I think it's based on spiritual energy (pyreflies and such), so it's related to aeons, but they aren't required or anything. Anyone in the party can learn spells at any rate. I think summoners have to be people with a special affinity for manipulating spiritual energy (I think that's what magic in Spira is based on?) but basically anyone can do it. My personal theory is that you have to have pyreflies to do it, so possibly the people in Dream Zanarkand (who I don't think have pyreflies, seeing as they're not actually alive -- though Jecht and Tidus would be exceptions because they touched Sin and possibly I'll post some discussion about the whole Dream Zanarkand business sometime to expalin that) wouldn't be able to perform magic of any kind.
But back to the point. I think magic comes with the territory in Spira. But there's a good thousand years of technology and magic existing in oppostion to each other (and possibly longer -- the war between Zanarkand and Bevelle could be seen as caused by that very things, but who knows). Yunalesca kind of made sure that the people were to seek salvation through summoners and faith, in direct opposition to the machina that killed her homeland. That mindset is hard to outgrow, even if people accept both magic and machina as "okay" intellectually, as at this point everyone was raised to respect one but not the other.
At the moment, I think magic fills an essential role that the machina -- as you point out -- seem to have left vacant: medicine. I don't know where healing potions come from, but the healing magics are pretty damn nifty. The Al Bhed have their own version, which is pretty powerful, but still needs to be made and bought and possibly people need to be trained in using it (Rikku was the only one who could use it in FFX, anyway). Since Spirans seem to have a natural ability to do magic, white magic is a renewable resource that does require some training but beyond that needs nothing once someone has learned how to use it.
Beyond that, the idea of magic and machina working in tandem is awesome and a little overwhelming. But there's a lot working against it socially and historically. Besides the obvious combat uses, magic can do things machina never could. Time mages, for example. Machina can help you get things done faster, but it's not quite the same. Oh hell, I don't know. The idea requires much more talking and thinking than I'm willing to do in a comment. I might speculate on it in an entry or something.
Technology:
I touched on this already up there a little bit, but a few quick notes. That people would automatically think of military applications, especially in a tense environment like post-Sin Spira, is pretty natural. After that, the huge need for healing seems to be already fulfilled by magic. Transportation seems to be a pretty big concern, though, so it's also a very natural area of application. Chocobos are nice and all, but airships are faster and carry more people. It would be nice if people thought ahead to how to create new machina, but at the moment the major needs -- war, healing, transport -- are met, and new applications for household use will probably wait until machina are better established in other, more "important" areas.
Population Boom:
There's a damn lot of open country in Spira. More to the point, there a LOT of unused coastline. Plenty of room to grow, lots of natural resources. I still shudder at the vast expanses of NOTHING around the Mi'ihen Highroad. The route's there, why not settle it now that population centers don't spell automatic doom? Eventually they will have to figure out how to curb their population and/or use of natural resouces, but for now it's not a big concern. I'd say more, but I'm close to talking myself out.
Oi. Yeah. I was going to talk about some of the general-fandom and not FFX-specific things you mentioned but I think I've commented myself out for now.
Anyway. Sorry for rambling, but I like canon speculation =)
Here via
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 06:17 pm (UTC)My memory may be failing me, but at the beginning of FFX-2, the girls find a sphere. Without spoiling anything for you, it's from Zanarkand 1000 years ago (or maybe Bevelle then, if that's the case. But I think they say it's actually Zanarkand), and I remember it looking just like Tidus' Zanarkand. So maybe they werent as far behind technologically as Maechen might lead us to believe, or maybe his memory's going (lol, he IS old). Perhaps Bevelle was just way ahead of everyone else, with Zanarkand focusing their efforts on goofing off and playing blitzball instead of actual war efforts. What were the summoners for anyway? Just war? I still dont get that one.
Anyway, havent had much time to think this one over, but that's something that stuck out to me.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 06:40 pm (UTC)Aside from that, if Zanarkand was as advanced as it seems in Tidus' "time" then they should really go see what's up over there >.>
In that case, though, two things:
1) I shudder to think what kind of machina Bevelle had if they were so far ahead of Zanarkand. My point about what the hell they did with their super-advanced machina still stands then. And might even be more relevant.
2) Tidus' Zanarkand being the way it is would make sooooo much more sense cause why the hell would Yevon try to preserve its memory and make if different? So if that's the case then cool, canon makes more sense. Bevelle would still be scary, though.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-17 11:02 pm (UTC)Now that I think of it, did Bevelle actually USE Vegnagun against Zanarkand? Was that what totally blew it to smithereens? I mean, if Lenne died trying to stop it from working... That would explain the super friggin scary machina no one else had seen the likes of in all of Spira. O_O
Tidus' Zanarkand certainly fits the "O NOES ZANARKAND WAS ALL MACHINA 'SWHY SIN CAME TO DESTROY IT" teachings of Yevon.
Who... who had Sin on their side? Yunalesca created it, ne? Her hubby, Zaon, was her daddy's first Sin, right? So... she made a deal with Bevelle for them to worship Yevon and she'd call it off?
Yet at the beginning of FFX, it wasnt machina we see attacking Zanarkand, it was Sin itself. Well, Jecht!Sin, not Zaon!Sin, but Sin nonetheless. IF Dream!Zanarkand is Real!Zanarkand... it makes sense that part of Yunalesca's deal with Bevelle was that she'd turn Sin on her own city to destroy it (the whore).
Hmm...
no subject
Date: 2006-07-18 12:46 am (UTC)And Tidus's Zanarkand is pretty much the remembered fragments of the real Zanarkand, if only idealized, so they can all play their blitz in peace.
As for the summons, I'm guessing they could be used to protect the city for defensive purposes, or they could serve as 'guardians' to their summoners, who might have to be a certain class to have the summoning ability.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-18 01:11 am (UTC)As for the archeology, there's not much technologically that could be useful, but there's a lot of thing that could be discovered that would be worth knowing. Methodologies for creating certain things, especially because the Zanarkandians seemed to be very adept at manipulating pyreflies. The history of the world before Sin. The amount of pyreflies at Zanarkand were so many that the place became a giant sphere. Imagine what a dedicated team with a sphere recorder or just a plain old notebook could do for the entire study of history in Spira, just by documenting the random memories that happened.
And the closest I can theorize for what happened to the old technology, is that Yunalesca forbade the use of certain machina, for example, things that could be used in warfare. The rest sort of happened through Sin's attacks maybe. When your city is torn down, maybe once a year, once every two years (rough estimate), there's really a need to pare down the rebuilding process. So people do what important (for example just getting roofs over people's head, and making sure that basic needs are taken care of), and put off with having comforts like electric lights, or running water, or microwaves. Eventually people forget how to do those things, or choose the 'why bother' approach. And then eventually it gets thrown into the 'no machina' values, so that hard-work becomes the form of atonement. Or something like that.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-18 12:52 am (UTC)Please, write what you want. The guy who says otherwise is a dick. (Also not the kind of reader I'd want. I read porn for the ideas in it. Sex without human emotion is just meat in funny positions.)
I'd rather see passion put into ideas I disagree with than a stale crowd-pleaser. I think One-True-Way-ism is silly, and I'm looking forward to see what you write, even if I happen to disagree with your premise.
no subject
Date: 2006-07-18 01:13 am (UTC)